Matt Watkins was interviewed by Mark Kilfoil on CHSR's (97.9FM) program "The Lunchbox," on July 25th, 2018.
MK: It’s nice to meet you, Matt. You’re in the barracks once again in this casemate, tell me a bit about the artwork that you’re working on. MW: Thanks Mark. I’m working on a painting this week, so I often do Plein Air studies, which are painted outdoors on locations. They’re usually quick studies, because I’ve got maybe two hours before the weather changes or the light changes; the shadows always are changing, and the colour of the lights, so the challenge with those sorts of paintings is to do them quickly enough that you capture the sort of overall atmosphere of what’s in front of you, and some of the feeling you have while you’re there, but without getting too bogged down with detail. You’ve got a limited amount of time, so you have to be quick, and it teaches you to paint quickly and to capture what you see in front of you quickly. MK: So are you doing the entire painting in that time, or do you take it back to your studio? MW: Yeah, about ninety percent of it. I usually get as much done as I can there, so that when I take it back to the studio, I can sort of tune it up. So I want to capture all of the information that I can, while I’m actually there. But I don’t typically know where the paintings worked well or not until I get back and open up my little paint box and take a look at it at the next day with fresh eyes and decide whether it’s any good or not. MK: Why is that? Is there not an instant understanding of what you’ve captured? MW: There is, but it’s the sort of things where it’s like you get a bit of tunnel vision, like when you’re staring at something for two hours, and then when you come back with fresh eyes and look at it the next day, it’s like “oh, that didn’t work.” Sometimes you nail it, you get it right the first time and you’re pleased with it, so I’m sitting with seven different sizes in front of me from five-by-seven to up to about twelve by twelve. And twelve inches there is about the maximum size that I can manage to work on in that short period of time. Possibly you could go back the next day if things hadn’t changed too much; same time of day, same sort of weather, and do something a little larger, but I try and keep them small like that, just for the reason of getting them finished, but also because of portability, because I’m often in the field, I’ve got my backpack and whatever I can fit inside my little case, so I don’t wanna get too carried away with lots of paints tubes, lots of big canvases. I paint them on small boards so that they’re a lot easier to transport, and I only use six colours typically. This is basic colour theory, but you’ve got red, yellow, and blue, and you can mix any colour with those three colours, so what I usually use is a warm yellow and a cool yellow, warm blue, cool blue, warm red, cool red, just to save myself a little time in the mixing stage, and that gives me a little more pure colour sometimes too. But in nature, you don’t often see the intense colours unless you’re painting flowers or something like that. You don’t often see blacks, you often eliminate that from your pallet, and so I just try and keep it as simple as I can; try not to use any mediums or anything like that. Just often one paintbrush, I’ve got a very limited, small kit that fits in my backpack, and I can hike with that, I can put it on my bicycle, I can get to sort of inaccessible places that I wouldn’t be able to just pull up in my car. MK: That’s kind of a classic image of painters. I’m trying to remember the name of the painter from West Coast. MW: Yeah, you think of Tom Thompson and the Group of Seven and those guys who are often in their canoe or in their railcars, you hear those stories where you rent a railcar and go for the summer, pitch their tent, stay in a cabin or whatever. MK: Was that part of what inspired you to do this too? MW: Yeah, for sure. That’s sort of a long tradition in Canada and certainly other parts, but a lot of that went in. MK: So are you scouting out locations you’re going to paint later or is it all as you do the hike, “now is the place to do it, let’s set up and paint.” MW: A bit of both actually, I’ve always got my eye open when I’m driving somewhere or hiking somewhere, to just notice what might be a good spot to come back to. In this case, these paintings were actually for a show that’s coming up very soon, it’s very last minute, as a lot of things in my life seem to be. So much so that I had to send in the inventory with the sizes and the prices and the titles and things like that ahead of time, so I actually did that and went out before I painted them. I picked rather generic titles like “Open Skies” or “Green Fields” or something like that, so I could not limit myself too much with what I went back and painted. That’s not typically how I do it usually; I go out and paint and maybe I’ve got a show in mind or a show coming up, and I’ve given myself enough time to actually finish the painting before I worry about framing or inventory or anything. In this case, it’s all sort of coming together. MK: How do you choose your subjects? I’m looking at the paintings you have here, and there’s not necessarily a central figure, which I think it revolves around, in one case it looks like a bridge is a framing device for an island in the background, but generally I’m not picking out a particular central feature. What is it that drags your eye to say “this is something I need to paint?” MW: Well, in a general sense, the theme of this particular show is “Bay of Fundy,” so all of the paintings were done in sort of the St. Andrews/St. Stephen area. For this particular residency that we’re doing right now in the casemates, the theme is the river, the Saint John River, and so all the artists that are here throughout the summer are going to produce a piece that relates to that, and there will be a group show with that common theme. But in terms of the individual scene and what I’m painting, I’m trying to pick something that has an interesting composition, or an interesting colour, or an interesting colour interaction or something like that, like a little show based on autumn colours and sort of autumn leaves and fall themes and stuff, but usually when you’re standing in front of a scene or the ocean or the forest or something like that, there’s so much information in front of you, that trying to include all of that, all the little details and stuff, it doesn’t necessarily make for an interesting painting, so you have to look at it with the eye of a photographer who’s trying to narrow that field of vision down to just what fits and maybe a little square that you form with your thumbs and fingers, and eliminate all of the extraneous detail, and capture the one or two things that are very important. So when you’re painting, it’s not a photograph; you can pick and choose what you see in front of you. Maybe there’s a tree there that’s in the wrong place and you want to just edit that out or move it to another spot, or there’s something that, compositionally, is not working, so maybe standing in front of something and combining two things from the left and right or moving them closer together just to make it more interesting as a composition, but still capture the feeling of the overall impression that I’m getting from the Bay of Fundy. I want to look at the painting and be like “oh, that reminds me of this particular day or this particular spot.” MK: So you’re not looking for a one hundred percent accuracy. MW: Yeah, and so like a hundred years later we look back the Group of Seven paintings and, you know, in this case it’s interesting because someone has done a film where they went back and tried to find the locations that those guys actually painted from, but typically, when you’re doing a painting, you’re not looking at a photograph and you’re not thinking “oh he forgot the tree” or something like that. It has to stand on its own as a painting, so often when I go back the next day to look at the paintings, I’ll say “oh, this part of it is really not working,” and I’ll just paint over it or edit it out or change the colours or something like that. MK: It’s like the original PhotoShop, you just remove what you don’t like. MW: That’s just it, yeah. And in this case, where we’ve got the residency, I’m working on this larger painting for the group show. I have to work from photographs because we’re sort of tied to the spot a little bit, so in the case like that, I’ll go out and do some preliminary studies, painting studies, sketches, maybe take some photographs and then bring that stuff back and work from that. But in terms of choosing the colour and stuff, it’s all sort of an open game in that case; you can sort of pick and choose your colours. Sometimes I’ll work from a black and white sketch, so just go out, do some sketches, and then come back to the studio and invent those colours. It’s not the artist’s job to copy a photograph anymore, we’re artists; we’re documenting history or the world around them with photographs; it’s not the artist’s job anymore. I personally think that paintings that look like photographs are a little bit boring; photographs are fantastic and paintings are fantastic, and there’s no need for one to emulate the other. MK: What I find fascinating about this kind of art is how different it looks from different distances. So, when I step back a few feet from the art, I see the overall scene as a really strong impression, it has a lot of, what I pick out at that distance, is detail, and then I move a bit closer and I realize it’s not exact detail, it’s interpreted detail. What’s your approach to kind of capturing that and going in this sort of abstract, up-close but focused in the distance feeling? MW: That’s the real trick, because you have to be able to make it work. When someone sees your painting, the first thing they see, it’s from across the room, it’s twenty feet away, so it has to work on that level, where it’s an interesting composition where the darks and the lights interact, the shapes interact, and you wanna draw people in, so you want to be attracted to your painting from across the room and then want to get closer. And then when they do, you have to get interesting on the level of texture, the brush strokes, the sort of feel of the paint, like oil paint because it’s got that glossy, kind of buttery finish. So it has to work on that level too, from a distance and close up. MK: Now where these ones are also smaller paintings, this one behind that you’re working on is quite a bit larger. Are there different challenges in working on that kind of scale or is it mostly that you have the time to not having to worry about the sun changing or the clouds changing or the inevitable weather change. MW: Well that’s a benefit for sure, I think that it’s useful to have the experience of painting from life rather than from photographs. There’s a lot of information that gets lost in a photograph. The contrasts get changed, there’s distortion, there’s colour changes, so trying to take a photograph and then turning it into a scene that’s a painting from life, if you have the benefit of having to work outdoors a lot, then you’d know what it’s missing; you can add those things back in. MK: I find that interesting because most of the time, people consider photographs to be exact replications of what this space was actually like. But it sounds like you strongly believe, and I think I can agree, that these interpretations are more real than the photograph was. MW: In a sense, yeah, and there’s also something about painting it on location where maybe it’s raining a little bit and the rain gets mixed up in the painting or maybe bugs get stuck to the paint or a little pine leaf or hair or something like that; something from the actual location. So I think there’s something intriguing about that MK: Have you ever purposely done that? Added something? MW: No, I haven’t picked something up and stuck it on the painting but if something gets in there, I leave it there. I think that’s part of the experience. MK: So how long have you been working at this? MW: I’ve been doing plein air paintings for maybe ten years or more, and the reason I started doing that was because I was working in the studio, I was working on more figurative work which I still often do, but I found it would take me a long time to finish painting. I’d start a painting, I’d get stuck, it’d kick around the studio for a year or two and I just had trouble finishing things. There’s an urgency when you’re painting outside; you’ve got that limited time, the smaller canvas that you’re working on, and so it’s helped me learn to be quicker at painting but also finish things, and so part of the reason why I enjoy it is just because it gets me outside, feeling the breeze, feeling the sunshine, smelling the ocean air or the forest or wherever you are, it’s a lot more enjoyable than being stuck in the studio all the time, so you’ve gotta have both, but I really enjoy nature as well as painting. MK: Now, these are all shots probably in the spring or summer, wherever you happen to be. Of course, we have, technically, four seasons, some might argue we have two: way too hot with construction, and snow. Do you do this in the winter time as well? MW: I do, but it’s sort of on a more limited basis because I’m a bit of a fair-weather painter so I’m not too inspired by standing out in the snowbank and painting, but I do like to get out there once in a while, especially in the early spring when there’s still patches of snow laying around, but there’s maybe nice warm weather and you don’t have to deal with the challenges of low temperature and precipitation and all that. MK: So how far and wide have you gone and travelled to paint? MW: It’s mostly been locally; usually when I travel, y’know, I’ve done it a little bit in the Caribbean, a little in and around the Maritimes. When I travel I kind of take my paint kit with me, or at least the sketchbook, so I can pull it out if I’ve got a couple of hours and maybe justify a little bit of a vacation with some work thrown in. MK: Is everybody else taking photographs while you’re there sketching? Is that what happens? MW: Another thing about taking a picture of things is that it’s difficult to sometimes experience the moment because you’re just rushing around, taking a picture, you’re on vacation, you’re a tourist, and you don’t really stop and look. When you’re painting, you’re forced to spend a couple of hours in that location and you really have to use your eyes and use your brain and look and experience what’s going on in front of you. MK: Now these paintings in front of you are primarily featuring natural landscapes. Now I know they were all part of a particular challenge, if you will; one of them looks like a bit of bridge, so a man-made structure. The one behind us looks like a bridge nearby. Is nature the primary thing you’re trying to capture or is it that anything can capture your imagination? Do you look to get man-made structures much at all or are they less interesting MW: Most of my paintings tend to be rural; I’ve lived in St. Andrews for the past fourteen years, just recently moved back to Fredericton, so that’s more rural area; there’s a little bit of architecture there so once in a while I will paint buildings or man-made stuff. I’ve got the walking bridge on the go with the skyline and the cathedral in the background in that painting, so yeah, I can get that in there. This is one aspect of my work, I also do figurative work, but my main work is jewellery, so I make silver and gold jewellery. MK: So how does this eye you have for the painting, how does this get expressed in jewellery, which is a very different medium? MW: They are very different, and I’ve struggled to kind of relate them, because I think of them separately. There are definitely themes that are consistent between both of them; I’ll use natural motifs and images in my jewellery, but I sort of see them as separate. I try and think of ways to bring them together. MK: So there’s a different math that gets involved in each of those. MW: Yeah, and it’s kind of nice that they’re separate like that, because that way, one or the other doesn’t get boring; if I get stuck in the studio for a while, I’ll take a break for a bit and spend the day out painting. MK: So you say figurative painting as well, and I think of, as opposed to literal painting. Is that right interpretation? MW: No, sorry, that’s a bit of an art term, I guess, but I’m thinking of painting the human figure. So it’s portraits and painting the human body. MK: So what kind of portraits do you get involved with? MW: Different portraits of individuals or of nude figures. MK: Are looking for something in particular to be expressed. Is it a matter of telling the human form in particular movements or is it about capturing this individual perfectly? MW: Could be both, could be the likeness if it’s a portrait, so often the likeness. If it’s a full body that then it’s often a gesture or a feeling or something that you’re trying to get across. MK: Is there a similarity there to your plein air painting in that a model can’t hold a position infinitely? MW: Yeah, well in some cases if you’re doing a quick sketch from a live model, you wanna be fast about, so it will tend to be more gestural. In general though, my plein air paintings are more impressionistic; you can really see the brush strokes, spots of colour, larger boulder shapes, the figurative work tends to be a lot tighter and more realistic. MK: So you’re covering quite a large gamut of art here; has it always been that you’re interested in different things? MW: It’s a bit of a problem for me because I’m also interested in sculpture, printmaking, drawing, painting, jewellery, book-binding, a whole bunch of all different types of art. I have to real buckle down and focus on one at a time if I want to accomplish anything. MK: Have all of these things ever collided together in a particular project? MW: They do, actually. I took up knife-making a while ago with the specific attention of bringing together some of the various techniques which I’ve learned through jewellery making and blacksmithing. You’ve got forging and polishing, woodworking, riveting, engraving, stone-setting, all of those different techniques. And to try and bring those together and demonstrate them is kind of a goal of mine, or like I’ve got ideas for a show about painting and jewellery to help them relate. It’s an ambitious project, but it would be nice to bring those together. MK: So are the knife-making and the forging and all of those tougher, physical activities your winter activities? Because it’s cooler then to do that? MW: I tend to be in the studio a lot in the winter. It would be nice to do it in the winter so you could do casting and stuff like that on a cold winter day. And then on a nice hot day you’re sort of sitting by the ocean, enjoying the breeze a little bit. Doesn’t always work out that way, as much as I try and make it. MK: So being in the studio here, for example, in the casemates, is it or is it hard to do that considering you like to be outside? Obviously it’s raining a bit today so it might not be as appealing, but for this environment, is it tough for you to get used to it in this environment? MW: No, I don’t find that. It’s a nice break, actually, from my usual studio and from working outdoors, it’s nice to do a residency once a year, so in this case it’s two weeks for me. Last year I did a residency at Fundy Park with a bunch of other artists, and am in the process now of applying for something next year. So it’s nice to spend at least a week or two out of the year getting out of the studio, getting some inspiration, spending some time interacting with the public and other artists. I find that really helpful in that it sort of reinvigorates my studio practice, because artists work alone and they’ve got a private studio, so it’s easy to get stuck in that. MK: Is it strange for people to be coming in and seeing the work before it’s finished? MW: Not for me, I’ve got quite used to that because I do instruction as well, so I teach groups of students who are standing on me, watching my every brush stroke. I’ve operated in St. Andrews’s gallery, so it was a studio gallery where my studio was in the back and my gallery was in the front, so people would come in and sometimes watch me work. There was open studio days, people would be curious what I’m doing and sort of watch me work for a while, kind of like this. I post occasionally on Instagram, sort of a live story of just them taking it in, videoing, whatever I’m doing, and post it online. So not necessarily a physical person standing over your shoulder, but same idea. I’ve gotten used to people watching what I’m doing , and I’m pretty comfortable with it. MK: Well you’ve been doing art long enough that you’ve been doing it in the pre-Instagram days. What’s it like to see that transition, because I’ve got to think that it is an opportunity like never before to get a bit more exposure to people, or they get exposure to your art, and being able to share that like never before. MW: Absolutely. It’s got tremendous potential, especially if you’ve got a narrow interest, a very specific thing. I guess for me I enjoy making skull rings, but there’s not a huge audience for that; there’s quite a bit of interest but not the sort of thing that I could set up at the market and sell a whole bunch of them week after week but through the internet you can reach a much broader audience. I’ve had customers from all around the world, quite often Europe and Australia, South America, all over Canada, but particularly the United States. MK: Do you think it changes the way that a living artist can work? Because New Brunswick has always had a very large art community, but you can only sell to people who happen to come to your gallery. Now with the availability, you can sell to that part of the world and still live in a beautiful place like this. MW: Absolutely. Not only that, but you can also sell directly to the customer. Years ago you were forced to go through a gallery, and that has its benefits, pros, and cons to that. Galleries definitely earn their keep, because there’s a lot of work that goes into working with a customer, designing a piece, working on commission, and producing a product that both the artist and the customer are happy with. There’s a lot of satisfaction with that, but there’s also a lot of emails and a lot of sketches and a lot of that stuff, whereas previously the gallery would have taken care of most of that administrative work. MK: Well it’s fascinating work. WH]here is a good place for people to find out more about your work? Obviously Instagram is one of the places. MW: Yep, so I’m on Instagram @earthforge for my jewellery work, and I can be found on Facebook. But if you’re in the St. Andrews area, I’m involved in a co-op down there, which is called Art 400, so my paintings and jewellery are available there. Also my sculpture work and silversmithing that I’ve done are available at Art 400 in St. Andrews. MK: Awesome, thank you very much. MW: Thanks Mark. Listen to the full interview here.
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